Coronavirus

DopeyRunr

the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts f
It's hard to say whether it's a well-intentioned misunderstanding, or part of a broader conspiracy to discredit this vaccine in particular (and vaccines, generally) like the viral lie about the vaccine and infertility. THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN THE VACCINE AND INFERTILITY!
 

BSS

Member
THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN THE VACCINE AND INFERTILITY!
I have been having this argument with DD19. Some of her friends at college have told her there is a link and it has been somewhat difficult for me to convince her. I just keep sending her articles by experts stating that there is no link, but it is very frustrating. I think she is finally convinced, but the struggle is real. I find it maddening that there are people/entities that willfully perpetuate misinformation around public health. This type of misinformation causes needless illness and death and puts the entire populace more at risk. It makes my blood boil.
 

lovett1979

Active member
I'm not sure what the *real* risk is for dining out indoors with a dining party of just your family, all fully vaccinated, even without the capacity reductions and every-other-table distancing restrictions in place. That out of 18,000 people vaccinated people in the Pfizer trial only 8 got COVID and none with severe symptoms... I feel like the probability of getting food poisoning from improperly prepared food is higher than that.
For me, while I know I'm 100% protected from severe illness and death, and mostly protected from infection, I don't want to be the one who gives it to someone else. With indoor dining, if one other diner in the restaurant is infected, the odds of everyone else getting infected is extremely high. And that infection could be passed on to others who are not yet vaccinated. So until the general vaccination rate is much higher than it is now, I won't dine indoors.
 

DopeyRunr

the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts f
For me, while I know I'm 100% protected from severe illness and death, and mostly protected from infection, I don't want to be the one who gives it to someone else. With indoor dining, if one other diner in the restaurant is infected, the odds of everyone else getting infected is extremely high. And that infection could be passed on to others who are not yet vaccinated. So until the general vaccination rate is much higher than it is now, I won't dine indoors.
That's very noble, but if we're playing amateur medical ethicist, what is the probability that your decision to stay home means your table is filled instead by an unvaccinated family, and you've potentially increased the risk of everyone else getting infected significantly. ;)
 

RetroCOTfan

Active member
In its ongoing effort to defeat Trolley Problems, the CDC announced some good news today. In real-world results, both Moderna & Pfizer proving to be 90% effective (after both doses) to prevent infection--both symptomatic and asymptomatic--and 80% effective after just one dose. Of course, such a steep reduction in all infections (not just symptomatic) will lead to a reduction in transmissions, as there is now less concern that vaccinated people could be roaming around as asymptomatic carriers transmitting to others.

Vaccines effective in real-world conditions
 

DopeyRunr

the jeweled acrobats only perform amazing stunts f
That's because I took a Trolley Problem picture and drew the oval/line over top of it. ;-)
You need to sign your artwork or someone is going to make an NFT and sell it out from under you I don't really know if that's how it works
 

Art Vandelay

that's a shame
Day after Phizer second dose--moderate achiness, pain around injection spot, very tired, feel foggy. Took most of the day off and slept off and on. Finished the CNN Lincoln documentary.
 

George

wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tag

geek1997

Active member
Great news! Pfizer plans to apply for EUA ages 12-15 in the "next few weeks". So maybe they won't require a full 6 months of data as Dr. Fauci originally stated (currently 3 months into this trial)?

Yes! I'm wondering if he intended that remark for the 6mo to 12yr trials. Both Moderna and Pfizer are looking at three levels of dosing in multiple age groupings - which is basically starting back at Phase 1 trials, no?
 

Anne

Well-known member
Yes! I'm wondering if he intended that remark for the 6mo to 12yr trials. Both Moderna and Pfizer are looking at three levels of dosing in multiple age groupings - which is basically starting back at Phase 1 trials, no?
Yes, it appears with the 12-15 year old group they are going to ask for a modification of the original EUA since they only tested the 30 mcg dose. I'm a little less excited today because all the news outlets are still quoting "early 2022" as the expectation for the 6 month to 11 year group. So perhaps Dr. Fauci was only referring to the 6 month to 11 year group when he made the comment about needing 6 months of data. My recollection is that he said something like "kids" and didn't specify an age group explicitly. It was a video interview and I don't recall which one to go back and listen again. It was the same video (from sometime in February) where he did clearly say he was "hoping" for first grade and up by fall, so I'm still holding on to a bit of hope that might happen. Pfizer's next group is a pretty large age span, 5 to 11 years, testing 10 mcg, 20 mcg, and 30 mcg doses. I hope that much variability in the test group won't muddy the outcome. I wonder if they are expecting them to still end up at 30 mcg dosing so they want a larger group in hopes of getting statistically significant results sooner?
 

geek1997

Active member
Any ideas why the age cutoff is 12yrs for these studies? My 10yo is a "younger" age for her grade because of a late birthday so she won't be 12 until she goes into 7th grade. Is there a big difference in immune system development between 11 and 12? Or was it just because they were trying to catch middle-schoolers/jr high?
 

amk3

Active member
Thrilled for my 14 year old! He and many of his friends have older siblings, and they've been suffering from major vaccine envy. I'm hopeful that including ages 12-15 will help all of us by getting us closer to zero cases.
 

Anne

Well-known member
Any ideas why the age cutoff is 12yrs for these studies? My 10yo is a "younger" age for her grade because of a late birthday so she won't be 12 until she goes into 7th grade. Is there a big difference in immune system development between 11 and 12? Or was it just because they were trying to catch middle-schoolers/jr high?
My guess would be puberty and tradition rather than school considerations. Most "adult" dosing and approval for medications are 12 and up. The theory is that by 12 many kids have pubertal hormones (more true for girls than boys) that give them more "adult-like" responses physiologically.
 

George

wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tag
You knew this was coming. “You can’t trespass me if I paid $15,000.” Which begs the question, what's the cut-off amount?

He said he spent $15,000 on a Disney World trip. He refused a temperature check and got arrested.
By Meryl Kornfield
April 3 at 12:53 PM

Kelly Sills paid a small fortune for an enchanting trip to “the most magical place on Earth.”

Instead, the Baton Rouge resident — like several other Disney World guests who have defied coronavirus restrictions — visited the Orange County jail.

Amid heightened precautions for the virus at the major Florida tourist attraction, Sills, 47, skipped the temperature screening required of guests, authorities said. He was confronted by security about it at a Disney Springs restaurant, the Boathouse, when he yelled and refused to leave, according to an Orange County Sheriff’s Office arrest report from Feb. 13. When deputies insisted he would be charged with trespassing, he pointed to how much he spent on his vacation, according to body-camera footage released this week.

“I paid $15,000,” said Sills, handcuffed. “You can’t trespass me if I paid $15,000.”

He pleaded not guilty to a trespassing charge, according to Orange County court records.

In an interview Saturday with The Washington Post, Sills said he would have “happily” consented to a temperature screening but he had inadvertently walked in through an exit and not realized his error. He partly blamed the security manager for escalating the conflict — and compared Disney security to Nazis and the mafia — but also admitted he was in “a bit of a mood” after a day of travel.

He was arrested on the first night of what was a five-day trip with his family, a rare reprieve for which he had paid thousands, he said. Two hotel rooms, air travel and admission to Disney and Universal for seven to eight people set him back, he said.

“Covid is a very serious thing, but so is my vacation with my family,” he said.

Sills’s arrest, first reported by the Orlando Sentinel, is not the first instance guests have been reprimanded over defying coronavirus restrictions at a Disney park. The newspaper reported several skirmishes have stemmed from angry refusals to follow the theme park’s rules, including guests spitting on, yelling at and pushing employees tasked with reminding visitors to follow restrictions instated to curb the spread of the deadly virus.

The confrontations at Disney World come as other parts of Florida have had to ramp up enforcement when rowdy tourists flocked to the state that Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has promoted as less restrictive. While spring break revelers descended on South Florida, DeSantis praised how busy the area was compared with cities in other states with stricter coronavirus guidelines, such as New York City. He has touted the state’s distribution of vaccine doses and argued it is safe to visit.

“It’s booming here because you can live like a human being,” he said at a February press event. “People take precautions, which is great, but you’re not locked down. People aren’t miserable.”

But some local leaders said the “open for business” message that endorses fewer rules could lead to “chaos.”

Disney spokeswoman Andrea Finger said conflicts over coronavirus rules are uncommon, with most guests following the requirements shared with them before they travel. Disney requires guests to stay home if they have symptoms, wear masks for if they are ages 2 and up, and undergo temperature checks at some entries.

“Guests have been overwhelmingly supportive of our protocols,” she wrote in a statement. “Millions of Guests visit our theme parks each year and in rare instances when things of this nature occur, we hold them accountable.”

In the body-camera footage, Sills expressed disbelief that Disney was requiring a temperature check as deputies walked him to a patrol car.

“I’m so ready to be done with this covid,” he told deputies at another point.

As deputies escorted Sills past families and others strolling through the park, he had a change of heart, wanting to undergo a temperature screening.

“Will you take my temperature before you kick me out, please?” he asked in the video.

“They’ll do that at the jail,” a deputy responded.

“Well, that’s good,” Sills said.
 
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