End to morning EMH? Something new

Anne

Well-known member
I would hazard a guess that this will not impact the park when they are offering regular EMH, simply because regular EMH gives you the run of the park, and this is a limited experience. It would be easier to implement on NON-EMH days where they can just not open the rest of the park.
I think the concern is that this might eventually replace free EMH. For the preliminary offering they will probably schedule it for non-morning EMH days. But if it is successful how long before they eliminate free EMH in order to free up days for the paid event? I have a hard time believing it will be successful, but I'm sadly likely to be wrong.

I'm also surprised they are risking cannibalizing BOG breakfast by likely eliminating the pre-RD advantage on the days this event is offered. But maybe they've found BOG fills regardless (for example on 8 am open days when there is no advantage).
 

cboyer

Active member
I think the concern is that this might eventually replace free EMH. For the preliminary offering they will probably schedule it for non-morning EMH days. But if it is successful how long before they eliminate free EMH in order to free up days for the paid event? I have a hard time believing it will be successful, but I'm sadly likely to be wrong.

I'm also surprised they are risking cannibalizing BOG breakfast by likely eliminating the pre-RD advantage on the days this event is offered. But maybe they've found BOG fills regardless (for example on 8 am open days when there is no advantage).
Even getting ride of BOG they would still come out ahead. $15 for breakfast per person at BOG or $69 for three rides open plus breakfast with new plan. Plus, the new paid option would have a higher capacity than BOG. I can see them getting rid of it in exchange for the new plan.
 

ChristineOH

Active member
There have been surveys sent out regarding adding a resort fee, which would "include" DME and wifi. If Disney were to eliminate EMH and start charging a separate resort fee for DME (so it doesn't seem "free") what is left to tout as a benefit of staying onsite? 60 day FP reservations and bus service? Are they going to add in something new, like extra FP?

For us, I guess it doesn't really make a huge difference. We don't usually use EMH. (Though I was looking forward to trying evening EMH out one day when our kids are older enough to make it up that late.). And the resort fee thing is annoying, but it's just a price increase regardless of what it's called.
 

cboyer

Active member
There have been surveys sent out regarding adding a resort fee, which would "include" DME and wifi. If Disney were to eliminate EMH and start charging a separate resort fee for DME (so it doesn't seem "free") what is left to tout as a benefit of staying onsite? 60 day FP reservations and bus service? Are they going to add in something new, like extra FP?

For us, I guess it doesn't really make a huge difference. We don't usually use EMH. (Though I was looking forward to trying evening EMH out one day when our kids are older enough to make it up that late.). And the resort fee thing is annoying, but it's just a price increase regardless of what it's called.
If the resort fee is meant to include DME and wifi though I can see a lot of people complaining who don't use those things. Some people drive up and don't use DME, or prefer to rent a car or take a cab, whatever the case may be. They would be better off just raising the price of the room and leaving DME as a "free" perk. For many people it is one thing to pass on using a "free" perk to staying onsite, but those same people would start complaining if they saw it as a line item on their bill and they never used it.
 

ChristineOH

Active member
Even getting ride of BOG they would still come out ahead. $15 for breakfast per person at BOG or $69 for three rides open plus breakfast with new plan. Plus, the new paid option would have a higher capacity than BOG. I can see them getting rid of it in exchange for the new plan.
BoG breakfast is now $22 per adult, so I guess it's kinda like doing BoG and then paying $47 for three rides. How much could you ride in 75 minutes?

Even though I will never do this myself, I wonder when you'd eat to have the best advantage in touring? Could you sneak in right at before 10:00? Could you ride 7D a few times, hit PP, hit Pooh, and then get through breakfast before regular RD crowds?
 

ChristineOH

Active member
If the resort fee is meant to include DME and wifi though I can see a lot of people complaining who don't use those things. Some people drive up and don't use DME, or prefer to rent a car or take a cab, whatever the case may be. They would be better off just raising the price of the room and leaving DME as a "free" perk. For many people it is one thing to pass on using a "free" perk to staying onsite, but those same people would start complaining if they saw it as a line item on their bill and they never used it.
I completely agree. Those who don't use it won't want to pay, and if they make it optional, it ceases to be a perk. Might as well hire a car. I wonder if resort fees aren't taxed the same, or if they'd just be trying to make the hotels seem less expensive up front. It seems like a bad move to me.
 

Anne

Well-known member
I thought I saw a post (from Josh?) that the resort fee idea was officially off the table?
 

ChristineOH

Active member
I thought I saw a post (from Josh?) that the resort fee idea was officially off the table?
I missed that!

I don't read the DISboards, but I do listen to their podcasts weekly when I'm doing long drives. Pete Werner was just discussing it last week. He thinks it is a done deal, and the survey was just sent to soften the blow. However, I can't see it happening for the reasons cboyer shared.
 

Momofpirates

Well-known member
I wouldn't like the resort fee at all. We drive to WDW, use our own car at least half the time to get around (although we appreciate the transportation when we use it), don't use EMH, etc. We do use the wifi.

I wonder if this new "event" sort of stems from the people who make an ADR at BoG and order one meal to share as a way to get 7DMT early without waits. They figured out people were willing to pay for the advantage of getting to the ride, so why not extend the opportunity and make sure each person pays? (I have nothing against people who do this, Disney allows the loophole to be there.) I also wonder if they will continue to allow the BoG guests to get in line for 7DMT early, or it they will only allow those with the sticker who used this new offer.
 

George

wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tag
Resort fees in general suck. It's extortion, a forced fee for many things you won't use. The place where we stay in HI charges this for the "putting green, pool, parking, and (shitty, unreliable) WiFi." Parking is self-park outside your unit (no valet offered), and guests who visit don't pay since it's an open property. All for $30 (plus tax!) per day.
 

mayonegg

New member
I could be wrong, but I feel like adding a resort fee and taking away EMH and replacing them with some paid alternative would drive away a lot of the people who stay on property (at least those who are not there for the “once in a lifetime” trip). The prices at on property hotels are already ridiculously high, presumably because they’ve factored in things like DME, EMH and wifi into the price (and if that’s not the reason, then why the hell are those hotels so expensive?). If they add a resort fee, the only good way to fool people into paying it will be to lower the rack rate of the hotel rooms, which we all know won’t happen. I’d prefer it if they just up the rack rate. If you take away all of the perks of staying onsite, people will start to stay elsewhere.
 

mgarbowski

Well-known member
Resort fees are also a way to raise prices for DVC members (and monetize people who rent points). They cannot raise the points per room night, per contract (they can move them around so one night goes up and another goes down, but not raise them overall). But, without having just reread the contract, I expect nothing prevents them from charging for non-room amenities and services that we have been getting with the rooms.
 

George

wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tag
I could be wrong, but I feel like adding a resort fee and taking away EMH and replacing them with some paid alternative would drive away a lot of the people who stay on property (at least those who are not there for the “once in a lifetime” trip). The prices at on property hotels are already ridiculously high, presumably because they’ve factored in things like DME, EMH and wifi into the price (and if that’s not the reason, then why the hell are those hotels so expensive?). If they add a resort fee, the only good way to fool people into paying it will be to lower the rack rate of the hotel rooms, which we all know won’t happen. I’d prefer it if they just up the rack rate. If you take away all of the perks of staying onsite, people will start to stay elsewhere.
People will still compare bottom line prices, and see the onsite perks are more valuable than other resorts in the area; many of the large offsite resorts already charge Resort Fees and don't deliver any transportation, extended park hours, or parking perks.

Resort fees are also a way to raise prices for DVC members (and monetize people who rent points). They cannot raise the points per room night, per contract (they can move them around so one night goes up and another goes down, but not raise them overall). But, without having just reread the contract, I expect nothing prevents them from charging for non-room amenities and services that we have been getting with the rooms.
I didn't read the contract either, but it seems to me that ownership in a property (even timeshare ownership) would not be subject to fees to use your ownership interest. But then again if it's in the contract, you've already agreed.
 

alh2011

New member
Reading the entry from Kenny, it specifically says guests with early breakfast entry will *not* have a sticker, so it seems this is the end of BoG benefits on these particular mornings.

But who can blame Disney, if people are lining up months in advance for the privilege of spending $14 on a bowl of cereal for a shot at 7DMT before RD, why not charge five times that amount?
This is exactly what I was thinking.
 

mgarbowski

Well-known member
I didn't read the contract either, but it seems to me that ownership in a property (even timeshare ownership) would not be subject to fees to use your ownership interest. But then again if it's in the contract, you've already agreed.
Which makes me think they make the resort fee cover services or non-resort-specific benefits like DME, WiFi, EMH, and bus transport, but not pool access or parking, which would be part of what we own a share.

And I'm determined not to read the contract, which can only end my speculation.
 

cboyer

Active member
Resort fees are also a way to raise prices for DVC members (and monetize people who rent points). They cannot raise the points per room night, per contract (they can move them around so one night goes up and another goes down, but not raise them overall). But, without having just reread the contract, I expect nothing prevents them from charging for non-room amenities and services that we have been getting with the rooms.
They can't raise the points, but they can raise the maintenance fees per point. But I was wondering the same thing, if they were doing this to get the DVC members to pay more for the "perks", thinking that if some people on hotel side might leave and go offsite, but that they would more than make up for that with the DVC members having to pay.

But really, if they want to raise costs, just raise costs. Make it more per point for maintenance costs and for a hotel room and be done with it. Things like this make customers feel like they have been deceived or ripped off.
 

mgarbowski

Well-known member
They can't raise the points, but they can raise the maintenance fees per point. But I was wondering the same thing, if they were doing this to get the DVC members to pay more for the "perks", thinking that if some people on hotel side might leave and go offsite, but that they would more than make up for that with the DVC members having to pay.

But really, if they want to raise costs, just raise costs. Make it more per point for maintenance costs and for a hotel room and be done with it. Things like this make customers feel like they have been deceived or ripped off.
Notwithstanding wiggle room and creative bookkeeping, they are limited to raising maintenance fees by the cost of actual maintenance, physical improvements, and a reasonable reserve. This is more flexible, I expect. But I fully agree, it's designed for maximum customer dissatisfaction, and will leave people feeling deceived.
 

TiggerGirl

Well-known member
i'm probably don't it wrong but when I go to book my vacation I don't look to see how it compares to last years' vacation - I setup what I want - and if the price doesn't cause a cornonary I book it. but I honestly have no recolection of what my last Disney trip cost.

maybe I just have blacked it out lol
 

Micah008

Moderator
Staff member
Things like "Transportation" (park and DME), and "Housekeeping", "Maintenance", etc, etc are already itemized in the Maintenance fees. If they did decide to charge a "Resort Fee" to DVC it would not be fair since we already pay for many of the things it supposedly covers.

As you guys said, they could easily increase the MFs if they want, but they can't make us pay for the same thing twice.
 

cboyer

Active member
i'm probably don't it wrong but when I go to book my vacation I don't look to see how it compares to last years' vacation - I setup what I want - and if the price doesn't cause a cornonary I book it. but I honestly have no recolection of what my last Disney trip cost.

maybe I just have blacked it out lol
LOL, sometimes I wish I was like that, but I am way too type A. I have budgets laid out for everything. And I can tell you, this year for almost the exact same vacation as last year (10 day, 9 nights, 2 of those nights at Universal, same hotels, same park tickets, plane fare, etc) assuming free dining comes out with the same provisions as last year, etc, and not counting cash we bring down. It will cost us about 3% more. So, on par with inflation.
 
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