How Many FASTPASSES Does One Really Need?

George

wishes he had a pink frolicing llama under his tag
Back to the, er, matter at hand, I'm really curious to know what the effect of having most attractions FP-enabled will have on the increase of wait times on current "anytime" attractions and, conversely, the decrease of wait times on current "first two hours" attractions. The Suits have presumably studied crowd patterns enough to theorize that more FP attractions will mean more evenly-dispersed crowds, but I have to be suspicious increased demand for, say, a seat in the Tiki Room.
 

Strangeite

Well-known member
Back to the, er, matter at hand, I'm really curious to know what the effect of having most attractions FP-enabled will have on the increase of wait times on current "anytime" attractions and, conversely, the decrease of wait times on current "first two hours" attractions. The Suits have presumably studied crowd patterns enough to theorize that more FP attractions will mean more evenly-dispersed crowds, but I have to be suspicious increased demand for, say, a seat in the Tiki Room.
You have to read between the lines, because no company wants to give away their trade secrets, but you can get an idea of Disney's thinking from the following documents.

Here is a patent originally from 2003, but updated in 2009, which basically outlines Fastpass+.

Here is a paper submitted to an artificial intelligence laboratory by a member of the Imagineering staff in 2010 titled "Agent-based Crowd Simulation Tool For Theme Park Environments." It is pretty cool. They have created a virtual WDW with autonomous virtual agents roaming the park the way guests would.

Here is another paper submitted for peer review from Disney Research outlining the results of testing "a novel method of routing visitors to less crowded areas by offering them well-timed incentives and information on mobile devices."

There is a ton more out there.

Karin's comment that it seems like the plan is to lead us around like sheep by our wrist is spot on. With the amount of information that they released to the public doman, I am extremely curious as to how sophisticated the actual intelligence agent has become.

Perhaps Skynet won't be born in a military research facility but rather at WDW.
 
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ernierich

New member
Excellent finds, Strangeite.

I can't say I'm looking forward to a text message every 20 minutes telling me that Stitch has no line right now!
 

Strangeite

Well-known member
I have submitted a request for iFixit (they are famous in the tech world for tearing down gadgets and seeing what makes them tick) to tear down a MagicBand. Here is a link to the request. If other Disney fans are interested to see what exactly the technical capabilities of the MagicBand are, then I urge you to vote up the request.

I can't say I'm looking forward to a text message every 20 minutes telling me that Stitch has no line right now!
I think you hit the nail on the head. This could work very well, but Disney will need to be subtle how it directs the crowds. The psychological component to the artificial intelligence master control will be as important as the technological one.
 

gccmedina

Active member
i can see it now I will be in line at something, my phone will let me know i have a text from disney "quick run to Haunted Mansion 5 minute wait", so I will run across the park and find that the other 100 people also got the same text. Benefit it that it will be more exercise so I can have another Mickey bar...I wear a weight watchers activity monitor so that i know i need to lift my arm more often when i am drinking my wine...and yes I have lost a whole 5 pounds in 3 months. I don't like being monitored or moved by technology kind of losses the magic, unless it works. I have never used the fast pass system and will be using it this trip so I will see if I like it or not
 

ChristineOH

Active member
That IS interesting stuff Strangeite.

The first time we did Philharmagic was because we got a bonus FP with our PP FP. (Or would it have been Pooh?) It was our first trip, and we didn't really have a touring plan. We figured, "Why not?" and used the Philharmagic FP and loved the show. For us it worked out. If they get this working properly, and they can direct me somewhere without lines, then great! The key is they have to move people places, and have the people HAPPY about it.
 

ChristineOH

Active member
I've read a little of the big long thread on the DIS, and no one has brought up the crowd movement issue, or if someone has, it's been ignored.

But that really seems like what these magic bands and FP+ will eventually really be about.
 

Strangeite

Well-known member
I've read a little of the big long thread on the DIS, and no one has brought up the crowd movement issue, or if someone has, it's been ignored.

But that really seems like what these magic bands and FP+ will eventually really be about.
No doubt. The final piece of the puzzle was when I learned that it included a new Bluetooth Low Energy protocol chipset. There is no other reason to include such an expensive bit of tech. If iFixit does a teardown and it is shown that Disney also designed the chipset in house, then WOW, they have plans for this thing that we haven't even dreamed of yet.

I had heard other people mention that MagicBands and Fastpass+ would be used to smooth out crowds by offering incentives, but finally seeing HOW much data they are going to have on each of us while we are in the park, is when the lightbulb went off.
 

Disneyfan

Well-known member
Strangeite, this is so interesting. I voted "up" your request. How many "ups" do they need before they tear it apart?
 

darnheather

New member
For my family it would be so much better with FP+. Granted I've never used the current system, but no way do I want to spend vacation running to the other side of the park for a FP. Maybe because I'm fluffy lol. No way could I ever ask spouse to do it either because he runs most days at work. I want to see as much as possible but can't be a commando tourist.

ETA: I also don't think FP+ will make FP spread to the masses. Not enough people take the time to plan like us mice to make a difference IMHO.
 

GaDawgfan

Member
There are some times where we currently only use 3 FP per day (Epcot), but what about when every or most characters have FP+, and CS restaurants, and parades, and night shows.... the number you need gets increased. How much space will be roped off for those parades and shows?
 

blyday

tests unsafe roller coasts in china
So Disney is doing this for the non planners? Are the non planners all of a sudden going to start planning? Most of them don't decide which park they are going to until that morning. Now all of a sudden they are going to plan ahead which parks they will be which days and which rides at what times they will want? I think this will be like anything else. It will be more of an inconvenience for the planners and the non planners will make no ride reservations just like most make no ADR's and wonder why they can't get into restaurants. Maybe Disney should start having people make a reservation for the park they want to be at on a certain day. They could control crowds that way right? No reservation no park entry. :RpS_tongue:

Ann
You are correct in the fact that the non-planners will still be the non-planners.....that won't change. The people who are going to start getting FPs with FP+ who don't get them now are non-rope droppers. Those people who would like to get in on FPs for major attractions but don't want to get up early on their vacations. This is the group that I read complaining about the current FP process more then anyone. The ones who felt that Disney should find a way for them to sleep in and still have access to FPs. These are the people who do make dining reservations, etc but just don't want to wake up early on vacation and have a major touring plan. They are good with arriving around 11 AM and then playing most of the day by ear. These are also those people walking around with their lines apps as a way to decide where to go to next. So....these people will increase the FP usage. Of course, there will be more attractions on the FP lists so over all.....we might not see much of a change there because it will be more evenly dispersed.

Back to the, er, matter at hand, I'm really curious to know what the effect of having most attractions FP-enabled will have on the increase of wait times on current "anytime" attractions and, conversely, the decrease of wait times on current "first two hours" attractions. The Suits have presumably studied crowd patterns enough to theorize that more FP attractions will mean more evenly-dispersed crowds, but I have to be suspicious increased demand for, say, a seat in the Tiki Room.
Yeah.....this is the one thing that I can see becoming an issue for us planners. Those anytime attractions are going to lose some of their anytimeness. That said....they do have FP for Philharmagic and even give them as bonuses when you get FPs for another attraction and even that one has not changed from being an anytime attraction.....so maybe with so many attractions getting FP availability.....we won't see too much of a change. (Yes.....this is me with my hopeful thinking and rose colored glasses on speaking!!!)
 

butchie30d

Member
With a great plan, FPs are almost entirely unnecessary.
Depends on what time of year you go. We can only go in August when crowd levels are high and there are only certain hours of the day you can be at the park before it gets too hot and crowded so you HAVE to leave.
 

RoonieRoo

will take any rain...even if its men.
I keep trying to be positive about FP+ since we really don't know the nitty gritty but with each release of information, I'm struggling to remain positive. To address the original question of just how many fastpasses does one need, more than 1. Not 3, 1. The FP will be tiered so, based on our touring style, it makes it one FP per day, not 3.

We use between 3 and 4 FP sets a day on our trips, almost all in the afternoon since we do rope drop. But they are only for the headliners. Since with FP+ we will only be allowed one FP a day for a headliner that makes FP+ pretty rotten for us. We haven't waited in a line for a ride longer than 15 minutes in probably the last 5 years or more of our trips. We are also pretty big park hoppers, doing one in the AM and, depending on the crowds, another in the PM.

From what I'm reading about FP+ this is going to be completely contrary to our normal touring style and it does not sound like much of an improvement. At first, I thought we could choose FP+ only for our afternoon park (which sounded nice) but you still are only getting 1 FP for a ride that actually needs FP.

I'm really hoping that I'm wrong about it and there is something bigger to the picture but I suspect that we will be waiting in more lines than we have in many years.

On the plus side, if it does prove to be a severe enough damper on our trips, we'll be able to start staying in 1 bedroom rooms since we will go less and, hence, have more points for our trips. See, I can be sunny about the change. :)
 

JustOneMoreTime

New member
Of course Disney is about maximizing profits and telling guests what to do (herding). Isn't that the theory of giving on-site guests the EMH? Disney tells them where to go, and gosh darn it, they think that is absolutely the place to be! Suits Disney just fine. Of course, most of us here on the board follow a plan which we decided suits our needs (oops I mean 'wants' ;) and plans -- intelligence and free will. Just because I get a text that says I have been given a free FP to Stitch's Great Escape, does not mean I will drop everything I am doing and head there. Quite honestly, the thought is laughable.

As for FP+, I agree with George and BNoble. FP is really not needed to have an enjoyable experience. I am a park hopper and a RD kind of person. I'll do the majors without FP after RD, and maybe with FP+ I'll actually ride some of those attractions in the evening at my hop-to park. My family has never had the opportunity to ride TT at night. With FP+, they just may have the opportunity to do so.

What I will miss, however, is the ability to share the magic. I have always enjoyed giving away FPs to some other family if for some reason we were not going to use them. I guess it's a random act of kindness sort of thing, and it just feels good to make someone else's day.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that I don't believe the sky is falling. I think that with some forethought, we can work the new system to our advantage, and still have a magical day.

~Christine
 

blyday

tests unsafe roller coasts in china
We use between 3 and 4 FP sets a day on our trips, almost all in the afternoon since we do rope drop. But they are only for the headliners. Since with FP+ we will only be allowed one FP a day for a headliner that makes FP+ pretty rotten for us. We haven't waited in a line for a ride longer than 15 minutes in probably the last 5 years or more of our trips. We are also pretty big park hoppers, doing one in the AM and, depending on the crowds, another in the PM.
Yes.....but this can still be done without FPs. For example....My husband and I have done (in June with a crowd level of 7) Peter Pan, Haunted Mansion, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, POTC, HM, Phil all before 11 AM without standing in a line more then 5 minutes and without a single FP. The only other headliner attraction left would be SM which you could have the FP for. So really......it can be done with a good touring plan and only that one headliner FP.

I am trying to remember which FPs people have been offered but I'm pretty sure that I remember during initial testing that you could choose up to 2 headliners or up to 2 "other" attractions. This might not be accurate and it could have since changed.....but that is what I remember. So...if that is the case, then we really can be golden for the day. If not.....well then....we will adjust.
 

MichaelColey

Real Name: Charcoal Grills
However things change, we'll adapt and make the best use of it.

How many FastPasses? As many as possible. We did a DVC tour and got five sets of 3 "Anytime" FPs. My wife wanted to do some other things with the two younger kids, so she let me and my son use most of those FPs on TSMM. Between those FPs, standby, and regular FP rides, I think we rode it 9 times that day. My arm was pretty sore, so I think that's about the maximum number of FPs I "need". :)

One thing I'll miss when FP+ goes into place is sharing of FPs. Right now, if half of us like TSMM and half of us like Star Tours, we can all get FPs and ride our preferred ride twice. If my wife takes the kids back for a nap and I stay in the park with everyone's passes, I can ride Buzz 5 times every 40 minutes.

But one thing I'll certainly enjoy about FP+ is not having to be the FPV. I'm always the runner. I don't mind (and can use the exercise), but criss-crossing the park multiple times won't be missed.
 
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