TouringPlans.com vs Josh recommended parks

Vhaz

New member
I'm sure I will be corrected, but this is my impression. Len is somewhat dismissive of Josh at times in different ways (suggesting Josh is not a real person, saying he makes up his recommendations, and other things I can't remember because I don't keep up with it all). I just think Josh thinks that TP's methods and numbers don't seem to add up or make sense.

Now someone can tell me I'm wrong and misread the situation.
I saw that thread too. I don't understand how "Len" can think Josh isn't a real person. Who takes the pictures or posts on the blog?? Maybe this is what Santa does in the off season??? :RpS_tongue:
 

josh

Administrator
Staff member
If I was "Leonard" I would dislike me too. You would have a website that for 10+ years has operated with impunity and now some kid shows up, takes some pictures of Animal Kingdom with nobody around, and makes fun of your "9.0 crowd level."
 

pfalcioni

does anybody know how to change this?
Read Len`s responses on that Dis link and you might lose some respect for him. I did. That said, I respect that Len and the Unofficial gang do a very good job of presenting WDW for easy mass consumption.
 

Not That Josh

Well-known member
If I was "Leonard" I would dislike me too. You would have a website that for 10+ years has operated with impunity and now some kid shows up, takes some pictures of Animal Kingdom with nobody around, and makes fun of your "9.0 crowd level."
I hadn't thought of that. If someone comes along and does something better (for free) than you, when you have been charging, it has to be annoying.
 

6js

New member
I saw that thread too. I don't understand how "Len" can think Josh isn't a real person. Who takes the pictures or posts on the blog?? Maybe this is what Santa does in the off season??? :RpS_tongue:
EUREKA! JOSH IS SANTA!

Actually, following the Christmas train of thought Len and Josh might be like The Miser Brothers.

WDW is just too big, too many facets and has too many different people visiting with their own opinions of what is important for any one source to be good enough. For example, I don't see Josh doing an in depth review and comparison of the Kids Clubs any time soon.

Overall I think Josh is the best but I put the people on Lines chat a very close second (or first for some things like what is going on today, or delivering liquor to my hotel room ;) ) with actual TouringPlans info in third place.
 

bnoble

he's right
People thought I was being mean and petty.
You were (and sometimes still are), but you have gotten better and you are not alone.

I think this is inevitable in the Disneyana planning community. Mike fell victim to it before he finally checked out, as does almost everyone else. All of the various sites/resources are built around personalities---even if they don't start out that way, they end up that way, for what I suspect are intrinsic reasons. Once that happens, every single one tends to develop a fervent fan base: fans of the person, as much as of the site. Because very few people are openly polygamous when it comes to their Disney planning resources, Site Wars periodically ensue.

One of those "intrinsic reasons" for the cult-of-personality development is that the success (or failure) of a planning resource is reputation-driven; most people who need help don't have personal experience, so they can't tell in advance what the various resources do and don't do well. Interestingly enough, my world is also built entirely on reputation. We are not measured by our research quantitatively as much as we are measured by others' qualitative impressions of our work. Actively and judiciously promoting your work is a hard skill to learn. I struggle with my students often on this point, because the natural tendencies of most computer scientists are to be both introverted in social situations but aggressive in technical debate. So, for most of them, finding the right balance point in promoting their work passionately but with humility is almost always an unstable state.
 

gccmedina

New member
Since I started this do I dare ask if I should go to Chef Mickey @ 10:15 for breakfast on 8/22 then head to Epcot from there. dd12 likes characters and science so i think we will wonder around just checking things out til dinner at 5:30 with the princesses at Akershus. or on 8/21 go to MK first thing in the am then head to Chef Mickey @ 10:15 for breakfast then back to MK. this is where she is going to want to spend the most of her time???
 

Not That Josh

Well-known member
Once that happens, every single one tends to develop a fervent fan base: fans of the person, as much as of the site.
I don't think I have ever been a fan of a person more than a site, at least to this point in my life. I like a site because of kind of information as well as the quality of that information.

The information on this site is created and presented by one person. So, in a unique situation like that, it's nearly impossible to be a fan of the site and not the person.

To jump off topic: I'm sure I have said this before, but it must be nice to do what Josh does. He is doing something he enjoys (or why would he do it) while helping people plan trips to WDW. He also gets to hear back from people who have benefited from his effort and time. Very few people get that feedback in what they do.
 

Not That Josh

Well-known member
Since I started this do I dare ask if I should go to Chef Mickey @ 10:15 for breakfast on 8/22 then head to Epcot from there. dd12 likes characters and science so i think we will wonder around just checking things out til dinner at 5:30 with the princesses at Akershus. or on 8/21 go to MK first thing in the am then head to Chef Mickey @ 10:15 for breakfast then back to MK. this is where she is going to want to spend the most of her time???
My first thought reading your question was that I would not want to interrupt a MK day like that. You will barely be getting started and then have to leave.
 

gccmedina

New member
that was kind of what i was thinking Epcot is not high on my priority other than the dinner and having her see some of the hands on stuff...ok I am changing the reservation so I don't have to interrupt our full MK...
 

bnoble

he's right
I don't think I have ever been a fan of a person more than a site, at least to this point in my life. I like a site because of kind of information as well as the quality of that information.
Well sure. I didn't say *everyone* does this. Just that some inevitably do---and they become the loudest voices in the the "debate." It is generally unwise to be a member of Site X and say "Yes, I know the fans of Site Y can be unreasonable, but sometimes we can be unreasonable too."

in a unique situation like that
In the Disneyana community, though, it's not that unique at all---nearly all of them are run by a single person or a small set of people who almost inevitably become the "faces" of each site. And, they tend to view one another as competitors as do each sites adherents.

That's very different from e.g. the sports blog world, where various blog members for a single team tend to view each of the other blogs as kindred spirits---and, many view the blogs of *rival* teams in the same way---even though they have very different perceptions of things. For example, many of the people who read MGoBlog as Michigan fans *also* read and respect Eleven Warriors, even though it's an OSU blog. They might not dig the other fanbase, and they might dislike the school, but if someone writes intelligently (albeit passionately) about The Other Guys, why, they'll get readers from all over.

In the various online communities in which I participate, I can't think of any single domain in which various adherents argue "which is best" as passionately as in the Disneyana community.

To jump off topic
Au contraire, mon frere. I suspect that is squarely on topic...I suspect that it is because people care about their vacations that they are inspired to passionate fandom. What I can't figure out is why that doesn't happen in other places---or even for other vacation destinations.
 

Marianna

New member
Josh, that was a beautiful response. :) Information I didn't know and delivered with style.

I got reeled in here because I was looking to better my game plan and frankly....this was free. Didn't take me long to try out Josh's ( and others here) good advice to see how spot on this site is. I've really no need to try out someone elses formula for comparison.

bnoble, I don't know that there is another vacation spot that requires so much planning to get your (sometimes huge) money's worth. Once people find a formula that (seemingly) works for them, they are reluctant to switch teams.
 

nklooz

New member
so what you are saying is to first get peter pan fast pass and go straight to belle first thing in the morning, even if TP or others say not to and to do it after?
Just did this a few weeks ago. ABSOLUTELY go to Belle first. I would not stop to get the Peter FP first, as I'd try to get in the first Belle group. It was amazing to me on a non-crowded, reco'd day, how much the line had formed just while we were in the first group. I'd follow his reco for Belle, then Journey of the Little Mermaid, then could grab a Peter FP before or after Ariel's Grotto. Didn't catch what age your daughter was so not sure what rides you'll want to do after that. But do Belle first :)

Also, I personally wouldn't interrupt an MK morning for a CM ressie. I'd do an earlier breakfast or dinner.

Also, Josh, I love your site. :)
 

Not That Josh

Well-known member
Yes, that's what he suggests now, which could change whenever FP+ goes into effect. Josh has actually done it multiple times, which is why he knows it works.
 

Not That Josh

Well-known member
In the various online communities in which I participate, I can't think of any single domain in which various adherents argue "which is best" as passionately as in the Disneyana community.
I can't disagree with that, mainly because I don't participate on many forums. I will say that I like that the passion on this forum is much more civil than others I have observed. It's nice to see people be passionate about something without being mean or aggressive.

side note: You remind me of a couple of my professors, which shouldn't be surprising, I guess.
 

gccmedina

New member
i was able to get a breakfast on the next day so that we can sleep in go to a late breakfast, go to epcot and stay for the day and evening. we have dinner at 5:15 then i would like to stay for illuminations but if we can't we can't. dd12 really likes chef mickey so between planning for princesses and places she is going to enjoy eating i think my parks and adr's are good. then on to the itinerary for the parks but i am going to wait on that...
 
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